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meika loofs samorzewski's avatar

I think there may be a non-useful slippage here between 'civilisation' and 'empire'.

Also "empires" may be more a nomad invention as they encounter/react/deal/trade/war(for horses & slaves) with settled civilisations, who in turn then take on nomad tech to varying degrees (and vice versa). That's Beckwith's thesis. (https://whyweshould.substack.com/p/christopher-i-beckwiths-the-scythian).

Then there is the varying types of empire (contiguous territorial expansion, trader-colonies expansion, & mixed). At which point the slippage between empire and civilisation hides the actual process.

Quigley seems ??? unaware of this slippage as you describe it. And focuses? on settled civilisations as the only source of everything, whereas it might be better to think of civs as empired together by nomad tech, and less opportunistic infections at the gate.

The Russian column in that table is hilarious. [Current Russian policy in its stupidity believes in the Brit Victorian writer Halford Mackinder's thesis, only minus the trader-colony empires consolation.]

As someone benefiting from the trader-colony empire here in Tasmania, I'll also add that expansion here was not dependent on starving Irish giving up their "surplus" for investment in Tasmania. The land was stolen and the social/worlding tech that had been here for 25K + years was replaced by nascent industrialisation funded food & energy exports (by way of lard & whales oil & seal oil). And even most of that was not done by convict labour (they did build some nice bridges easing the export of lard & wool though) Expansion is its own reward when combined with new tech. New tech on its own is expansion. At least that is the economic thesis I learned at high school and which transhuman prophets say will allows us to reach the singularity any decade now. ???Quigley seems unaware of tech in his static agrarian economics. (says he with a feudal noble last name). Or is he saying tech is flash in the pan? And we will revert to stasis and slavery at some point? Only now will I google his date of birth and shut up.

I learnt my ecological colonial terms about neo-europes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_Imperialism_(book)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_W._Crosby

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Hyolobrika's avatar

"Pride always comes before a fall"

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