I'll take your walk through the satanic-infested park and raise you a walk through the rattlesnake and coyote-infested pasture, after sundown, under the stars and a full moon.
It's always interesting to hear the experiences of another Gen-Xer.
Was that a regular experience out in the country? I grew up in the suburbs, and it was always a struggle to get to rural or wilderness areas before my friends and I reached legal driving age. We'd have campfires in the nearby orchard and in the aqueducts that crosscrossed beneath the streets, but the population exploded, urbanization encroached everywhere, the cost of living skyrocketed, and there was just nowhere recognizable anywhere.
“I like to think that those guys all worshiped Satan together happily ever after, until the forces of destiny saw them working in mindless drudgery at McDonalds, or serving time at local correctional facilities.”
Or they’re being paid six-figures by a Soros-funded NGO to sow chaos throughout society. Or they’re tenured professors. Or they’re running a pedophile ring for the stars. Or they work for the DNC. Or they’re in the music industry.
Society offers far more opportunities for degenerate Satanists than you give it credit for here.
True, I didn’t. But I have met pretty unimpressive people in high status positions. So I don’t think the fact you found them unimpressive, plus the fact they were Satanists, precludes them from attaining wealth and/or prestige. But maybe if they had poor hygiene. Perhaps poor hygiene is disqualifying, even if being a moron and worshipping Satan is not. We generally like our Satanic morons to present well.
"They also had a few theological interests; they spoke about how if Jesus Christ appeared before them, they would drop him with a punch, but if a demon appeared, they would punch him, and then they would run, but they would be dead. Why they thought Jesus would be weaker than a demon if God was the originator of the universe, and demons were created beings, I’m still not really sure, because questioning them on this point didn’t really seem to return particularly lucid explanations." worldbuilding/doctrinal teambuilding does not require this logic of which you speak
I wonder if society would have progressed differently if home gaming systems never happened. What would today’s world be like if everyone still had to go to an actual arcade, pay their 25 cents, and enjoy three minutes of fun before they were killed?
People would still be social. I don’t think levels of agoraphobia would be as high because people would have to leave their house. You really might be onto something with this idea. Just one little change would have resolved so many problems that it seems today’s young people face.
I'd probably rather it weren't true. And in fairness, even if you remove games from the equation, cell phones that could send texts, take pictures, play music, and access the Internet would still have contributed to various shifts and problems.
In general, *anything* that encourages people to spend their time and focus in an isolated activity will reduce socialization and interaction with the physical world. Even the old penny dreadfuls encouraged people to sit quietly and read by themselves; even letters people would write divorced communication from face-to-face interaction. Most people would agree that these technologies weren't too bad; and if all that happened technologically in the 20th century was that video games became so cheap that kids sat at home to play them, that may still not have been too disruptive. The real problem is that technological forms of entertainment and communication have by now almost completely eclipsed engagement with the physical social world.
Nice story about the Satanists! About the happy childhood and youth that you describe: it was somewhat different for girls, wasn’t it? Or maybe the girls of the eighties also lurked around in gangs at night, smoking in abandoned yards and getting in trouble? I was too young in the eighties, but based on some statistics I’ve seen about that decade, it might’ve been the peak time of girl delinquency. Later I did know some girls who managed to gang up with boys and take part in their midnight ventures (lucky ones!), but most girls didn’t I guess. Most girls’ lives were much less social and less physically active even in the eighties (?). I just finished Benenson’s “Warriors and Worriers” and am still in a state of bafflement at how depressing childhoods and youths we girls naturally have compared to boys. Yet it’s the girls who are hit harder by the social-media-age anxiety. Maybe they’ve lost what little physical-world social life they had before?
On a more positive note, I have an early-teen son who spends his free time fighting the neighborhood boys using all kinds of makeshift weapons not recommended by grown-ups, and just generally hanging around the city, with me having no idea what they do there (I’m not worried yet, they’re good boys). This kind of youth is still possible, though I’m not sure about the US. Maybe over there you’d be reported to the police for letting kids walk around unsupervised like this.
So I'm only speaking from experience rather than from widespread surveys. However, my sense is that Gen-X girls lived very similarly to the boys. I had girlfriends who engaged in the same fence-hopping, roof-climbing that I did, and one of the Satanists was female.
But where do you live? None of this is really applicable outside the US. Tove and Anders would be Millennials, but they don't show any of the Millennial Narcissism, and do have the kind of practicality and do-it-yourself mentality of Gen X. I do think that widespread cell phones will likely provide a shift no matter where you live, but even this might be muted in places where cultural individualism isn't well advanced.
I dunno, 16-bit era was pretty peak for me. We'd rent games and do tag team marathons before the rental expired. Those JRPGs were long! There were some great co-op games in there too. Loved the NES too of course. No real arcades where I grew up, just a couple cabinets at pizza places and convenience stores.
The transition may have hit you later; or my own experiences may have been anomalous. But I grew up poor, for an American, and by the time the SNES came out, everyone I knew had multiple computers and game systems, and massive libraries of games to play on them.
Haha same. My parents didn't get a computer until after I moved out, all we had was an SNES timeshared between four kids. But when I did move out, it was with a roommate, and we hosted LAN parties with our junk computers and played MUDs together. I'd say it was around the playstation 2 that the consoles really gave up on gaming as a social experience. Though Nintendo still focused that direction.
I'll take your walk through the satanic-infested park and raise you a walk through the rattlesnake and coyote-infested pasture, after sundown, under the stars and a full moon.
It's always interesting to hear the experiences of another Gen-Xer.
Was that a regular experience out in the country? I grew up in the suburbs, and it was always a struggle to get to rural or wilderness areas before my friends and I reached legal driving age. We'd have campfires in the nearby orchard and in the aqueducts that crosscrossed beneath the streets, but the population exploded, urbanization encroached everywhere, the cost of living skyrocketed, and there was just nowhere recognizable anywhere.
Ten miles outside the city limits, wildlife ruled. So yes, Rattlesnakes and coyotes came out at night.
“I like to think that those guys all worshiped Satan together happily ever after, until the forces of destiny saw them working in mindless drudgery at McDonalds, or serving time at local correctional facilities.”
Or they’re being paid six-figures by a Soros-funded NGO to sow chaos throughout society. Or they’re tenured professors. Or they’re running a pedophile ring for the stars. Or they work for the DNC. Or they’re in the music industry.
Society offers far more opportunities for degenerate Satanists than you give it credit for here.
That may be, but you didn't meet them.
True, I didn’t. But I have met pretty unimpressive people in high status positions. So I don’t think the fact you found them unimpressive, plus the fact they were Satanists, precludes them from attaining wealth and/or prestige. But maybe if they had poor hygiene. Perhaps poor hygiene is disqualifying, even if being a moron and worshipping Satan is not. We generally like our Satanic morons to present well.
"They also had a few theological interests; they spoke about how if Jesus Christ appeared before them, they would drop him with a punch, but if a demon appeared, they would punch him, and then they would run, but they would be dead. Why they thought Jesus would be weaker than a demon if God was the originator of the universe, and demons were created beings, I’m still not really sure, because questioning them on this point didn’t really seem to return particularly lucid explanations." worldbuilding/doctrinal teambuilding does not require this logic of which you speak
I wonder if society would have progressed differently if home gaming systems never happened. What would today’s world be like if everyone still had to go to an actual arcade, pay their 25 cents, and enjoy three minutes of fun before they were killed?
People would still be social. I don’t think levels of agoraphobia would be as high because people would have to leave their house. You really might be onto something with this idea. Just one little change would have resolved so many problems that it seems today’s young people face.
I'd probably rather it weren't true. And in fairness, even if you remove games from the equation, cell phones that could send texts, take pictures, play music, and access the Internet would still have contributed to various shifts and problems.
In general, *anything* that encourages people to spend their time and focus in an isolated activity will reduce socialization and interaction with the physical world. Even the old penny dreadfuls encouraged people to sit quietly and read by themselves; even letters people would write divorced communication from face-to-face interaction. Most people would agree that these technologies weren't too bad; and if all that happened technologically in the 20th century was that video games became so cheap that kids sat at home to play them, that may still not have been too disruptive. The real problem is that technological forms of entertainment and communication have by now almost completely eclipsed engagement with the physical social world.
Nice story about the Satanists! About the happy childhood and youth that you describe: it was somewhat different for girls, wasn’t it? Or maybe the girls of the eighties also lurked around in gangs at night, smoking in abandoned yards and getting in trouble? I was too young in the eighties, but based on some statistics I’ve seen about that decade, it might’ve been the peak time of girl delinquency. Later I did know some girls who managed to gang up with boys and take part in their midnight ventures (lucky ones!), but most girls didn’t I guess. Most girls’ lives were much less social and less physically active even in the eighties (?). I just finished Benenson’s “Warriors and Worriers” and am still in a state of bafflement at how depressing childhoods and youths we girls naturally have compared to boys. Yet it’s the girls who are hit harder by the social-media-age anxiety. Maybe they’ve lost what little physical-world social life they had before?
On a more positive note, I have an early-teen son who spends his free time fighting the neighborhood boys using all kinds of makeshift weapons not recommended by grown-ups, and just generally hanging around the city, with me having no idea what they do there (I’m not worried yet, they’re good boys). This kind of youth is still possible, though I’m not sure about the US. Maybe over there you’d be reported to the police for letting kids walk around unsupervised like this.
So I'm only speaking from experience rather than from widespread surveys. However, my sense is that Gen-X girls lived very similarly to the boys. I had girlfriends who engaged in the same fence-hopping, roof-climbing that I did, and one of the Satanists was female.
But where do you live? None of this is really applicable outside the US. Tove and Anders would be Millennials, but they don't show any of the Millennial Narcissism, and do have the kind of practicality and do-it-yourself mentality of Gen X. I do think that widespread cell phones will likely provide a shift no matter where you live, but even this might be muted in places where cultural individualism isn't well advanced.
I dunno, 16-bit era was pretty peak for me. We'd rent games and do tag team marathons before the rental expired. Those JRPGs were long! There were some great co-op games in there too. Loved the NES too of course. No real arcades where I grew up, just a couple cabinets at pizza places and convenience stores.
The transition may have hit you later; or my own experiences may have been anomalous. But I grew up poor, for an American, and by the time the SNES came out, everyone I knew had multiple computers and game systems, and massive libraries of games to play on them.
Haha same. My parents didn't get a computer until after I moved out, all we had was an SNES timeshared between four kids. But when I did move out, it was with a roommate, and we hosted LAN parties with our junk computers and played MUDs together. I'd say it was around the playstation 2 that the consoles really gave up on gaming as a social experience. Though Nintendo still focused that direction.